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10 Weird Mormon Beliefs Hidden And Not Publicly Talked About

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10 Weird Mormon Beliefs Hidden And Not Publicly Talked About

While every religion has its own beliefs, traditions and customs that seem somewhat unbelievable to outsiders and non-believers, the Mormons have their fair share of unique values. What makes the Mormon beliefs particularly out of the ordinary is that Mormons dedicate so much time and energy trying to help non-Mormons.

Editor’s Note: Before reviewing this article, please read through our article about the Underground Mormon Genealogy Database, where TSW explores the unusual underground vault – evidence of another unusual Mormon belief that the dead can be baptized as Mormon, and even when they were never Mormon or expressed any desire to be Mormon when alive.

Mormons are essentially Christian people, who belong to the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” (LDS). The LDS church was founded in 1830 by Joseph Smith. While Mormons fundamentally identify as Christians, some of their beliefs diverge from mainstream Christianity, such as the central belief that God speaks to children.

Unlike true Christianity, Mormon beliefs include the Book of Mormon as well as the Bible. One of the most glaring differences between Mormonism and Christianity is that Mormon doctrine asserts that God was once an ordinary human being who once lived on earth like an everyday man. (1)

In placing a huge emphasis on the family and taking care of one another, it doesn’t seem surprising that there are approximately 7 million Mormons in the United States and it is the fastest growing religion in North America. (2)

In emphasizing family values and involving people in communities, non-Mormons can largely relate to these central aspects of Mormon beliefs. There are however many facets of the Mormon religion that are not as “believable” or as easily related to and some that are not publicly admitted to.


Five Strange Mormon Beliefs

Multiple Worlds with Multiple Gods

Mormons have a unique view on cosmology and believe that God created many planets and that each planet has its own God. The Mormon religion goes even further, stating that if you are a good person you will be rewarded by being a God on your own planet. (3)

Tithes

Tithing is rarely mandatory in religion, but Mormonism theology asserts that in order to make it to the highest kingdom in heaven; you are required to pay 10% of your gross income (tithes) to the church.

Multiple Heavens

Talking about heaven, whilst Christianity believes that there is only heaven, the Mormon beliefs include three heavens that are hierarchical based on how good you were as a human being.

Children Should Not Play with Friends on Sunday

In a speech made in St. Peter’s Square in June 2012, the Pope told his audience:

“By defending Sunday, one defends human freedom.” (4)

If you go to a largely Catholic country such as Spain, you will notice that very few places are open on a Sunday, unlike the United Kingdom, for example, where shopping on a Sunday has become very much like every other day.

Mormon theology is similar to Catholicism in the sense that it proclaims that Sundays must be a day of rest dedicated to God and the family. Although Mormonism takes this even further by insisting that no TV can be viewed on Sundays and that children are not allowed to play with their friends on the “day of rest”.

Dark Skin Turns White

It wasn’t until 1978 when black men could be given priesthood in the LDS church. Some have accused Mormonism of preaching white supremacy. One Mormone doctrine that is not publicly talked about is that if you have dark skin and convert to Mormonism, your skin will become white. (5) Of course, not all Mormons believe or even know about these hidden elements.

mormon beliefs

Five More Unusual Mormon Beliefs

The LDS Temple Marriage

If you want to be with your spouse in the afterlife, according to Mormon faith, your marriage ceremony must be undertaken in the LDS Temple. All marriages that take place outside the LDS Temple are considered inferior.

Coffee and Tea is Prohibited

As drinking coffee seems to be an integral part of presidential campaigning and being in office, we are sure self-confessed Mormon Mitt Romney found this aspect of Mormonism difficult to adhere to in the 2012 US presidential elections, if he even knew about this lesser known Mormon doctrine that is. According to the website, Life After Mormonism, coffee and tea, and for some families all caffeinated drinks, are prohibited under Mormonism. (5)

Love Isn’t as Strong for Non-Mormons

Any religion that suggests that the love felt between spouses and families of “outsiders” is not as strong as those within its own faith is guaranteed to raise eyebrows. The suggestion that the love bond isn’t as strong between couples and families who are not LDS has been made and, given its absurdity, is hardly surprising that it is one component Mormons would rather keep a secret.

The Earth is 7,000 Years Old

While there has been no official statement made by the LDS church stating the age of the planet, many Mormons believe that planet earth is thousands of years old as opposed to the billions of years that is widely accepted by the world of science. This is also a belief held by creationist scientists. Those who believe in a younger planet earth point to examples from the Mount Saint Helens eruption and carbon dating inconsistencies. Other scientists theorize that the earth is millions of years old.

Dinosaur Bones Came from Other Planets

The LDS Church Institute teaches that fossilized dinosaur bones came from other creatures living on other planets that were destroyed when Earth was created. (6)

Editor’s Note:

At TSW, we’ve always covered the topic of unusual beliefs, and try to explore them from the mindset of someone that lives outside of the perspective of anyone inside of the community that believes in those things. The reason for this is that it’s the only way to be able to see the forest for the trees. However, many Mormons have pointed out in the comments section that the article is too heavily focused upon things that non-Mormons believe about the Mormon religion which, these people claim, are mostly entirely untrue.

Since the publication of this article, we’ve had a constant barrage of people within the Mormon religion attacking Gabrielle, and attacking Top Secret Writers for the publication of this article. Thankfully, we’ve also had former members of LDS arrive to provide their perspective as well and confirming that much of this is absolutely true – but there are many things the Mormon leadership do not want discussed publicly. This is interesting enough to warrant an interview with former members of the Church, to explore just how this effort to suppress information is conducted (and whether the suppression really exists, of course).

Please note: Going forward, any and all future comments making blanket attacks against the author of this article or this website, will be removed. Please focus on discussing specific issues/information inside of the article, and please provide evidence or sources to support your side of the debate. Provide comments with sources 24 hrs to be approved, as links get auto-marked for review. I will approve them all so long as they are part of a mature discussion about these issues. Attack/derogatory comments toward the author or this website will be automatically deleted and the user will be banned. I realize this topic is extremely sensitive for many – but that doesn’t mean the debate/discussion about the reality or non-reality of specific beliefs can’t be maturely discussed and proven or debunked. Thank you.


References & Image Credits:
(1) Theology Web
(2) US News
(3) Ubscure.com
(4) Catholic News
(5) Life After Mormonism
(6) Personal Finance Affjoy
(7) San Diego Shooter via photopin cc
(8) Marjorie Lipan via photopin cc

Originally published on TopSecretWriters.com

  • http://twitter.com/zypldot Matthew

    You forgot to mention that all (practicing LDS) adult males over the age of 18 are, by default, given priesthood in the Mormon church.

  • Guess Again

    In the LDS seminary, we are taught that dinosaurs were here BEFORE Adam and Eve. Furthermore, to say that it is a lesser known Mormon value that coffee and tea are prohibited is pure and utter nonsense. As painful as it may be, do some research. It tends to make you look less moronic.

  • Guess Again

    Again. Nonsense. A male receives the Aaronic preisthood at the age of 12. No person receives the preisthood by default. The person MUST be found worthy by the church. NOTHING happens by default.

  • Jack

    My favorite is the baptism of the dead which they base off a verse which is misinterpreted in 1 Corinthians. The Book of Mormon constantly contradicts the bible. It is written in king James English for some reason (they didn’t speak it in the 1800s and it certainly wouldn’t have been king James English on the plates). Their views about the new world inhabitants are completely void of evidence. All the ancient peoples in the Old Testament have archeological evidence. No evidence for the lamenites and certainly not the nephites. The BoM also talks about horses and steel yet it is a common fact that those things didn’t arrive until much later. The best is that their rituals are based off Masonic rituals and most Mormons have no idea. The underwear they wear even has the compass and ruler on each nipple: the symbol of masonry

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    I’m not sure what’s more shocking: The inaccuracies, the poor selection of references, or the atrocious writing style.

  • http://www.facebook.com/terri.jeppson Terri Jeppson

    Yeah, um, every single one of your assertions was WRONG. You took a tiny bit of information and then wrote your own fairy tale about it.
    I thought a 10 year old wrote this.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    Jack: “All the ancient peoples in the Old Testament have archeological evidence.” Does that include the giants that are mentioned in genesis? Or how about the 10 tribes that have been lost for centuries?

  • http://www.facebook.com/terri.jeppson Terri Jeppson

    1) We do not believe that every planet created has it’s own God.
    2) Tithing is a commandment. Just like any commandment, if you don’t follow it, you shouldn’t be surprised if you don’t get to live with Heavenly Father in the next life.
    3) Three degrees of Glory, based on where you actually want to be. A person who told one lie in their life shouldn’t have to live for eternity with a murderer.
    4) Where’s your evidence of no playing on Sundays? Because I have a quote from our last prophet, President Hinckley that says keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn’t mean locking our kids in the house.
    5) Joseph Smith ordained the first black man to the priesthood in 1836. Many black men had the priesthood before 1978. And, the reason ‘not all mormons know about this’ (referring to your statment)
    is because it isn’t true.
    6) ?Inferior? No. Civil marriages are until death do you part. That means as soon as one of you dies, you are no longer married. Does that mean you won’t see them in the next life? No. It just means you won’t be married to them.
    7) Prohibited? We have the right to choose to follow this commandment or not. Just like any other commandment. We are also told that it actually isn’t good for our bodies.
    8) “Love Isn’t as Strong for Non-Mormons” I want your evidence for this claim.
    9) Remember this part that you posted, “there has been no official statement made by the LDS church stating the age of the planet”
    Really, that was the best you had?
    10) I want your evidence for this claim, as well.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I disagree – everything listed in this article is well supported with quality sources at the end of the article (and sourced throughout). Based on the immaturity of your comment, it’s more like a 10 year old wrote your comment.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I’ll let US News know you don’t consider them to be a valid source.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    There isn’t a single LDS Source, it seems if you were making points about what members of the church believe you’d expect at least one LDS source used to support the conclusions. The fact that Terri was able to point out the error in the conclusions the author makes on every point only further underscores the lack of research and credibility demonstrated by this article.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    Citing sources is one thing, citing credible sources is another…citing sources accurately is likewise an all together different skill set. Terri has outlined how the points made are grossly inaccurate,

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    Jack: “All the ancient peoples in the Old Testament have archeological evidence.” Does that include the giants that are mentioned in genesis? Or how about the 10 tribes that have been lost for centuries?

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I disagree – quality is everything. We specifically avoid citing sources that are particularly biased against or in favor of certain beliefs. I would consider an article about what Catholics believe to be far more balanced if it contains factual and unbiased sources from theologists that study religion, rather than people that strongly believe something, and want the world to believe that what they believe is true.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Terri outlines positions/opinions about personal beliefs – nothing posted calls into question the accuracy of the article and what experts and historians describe as the long-running beliefs of the religion. I realize that there’s a deep-seated need to discredit anything that paints one’s personal religion in a somewhat negative light, but that doesn’t make it so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    “We specifically avoid citing sources that are particularly biased against or in favor of certain beliefs.” Life After Mormonism is clearly an anti-Mormon site so your perspective is already called into question by your own evidence. More than that were talking point of doctrine, not history and not anything the church would be prone to be less than upfront about. It’s not a question of Bias to ask a Mormon what Mormons are taught as doctrine, that’s called recognizing a first hand source. In fact, I’m shocked you haven’t asked for some clarity from our vantage point since it’s clear that the veracity of this post has been called into question by the very people it professes to be a report about.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    This isn’t a question of discrediting the article…it’s a clear and articulated call to prove unsubstantiated material that was presented, and an equal clear presentation of what Mormons really believe instead of the fictional account presented here.

  • Wendell Welling

    And that would matter because?

  • Wendell Welling

    Ryan, for all your claiming that certain things are “secret” or “hidden” you haven’t brought one single new thing to light here. Members of the Church are slapping their knees laughing at this article right now. Your use of loaded terms such as “forbidden” and the like is so comical and overwrought that it renders your article a joke. As a member I have been dealing with this silliness from non Mormons my whole life and you call it ‘secret?” It’s really just the same old expose’ as yesterday and it wasn’t accurate then. Why are you so stubborn as to not realize that Mormon’s know their religion better than you do? Isn’t it quite a bit of hubris to claim the opposite? And since when do Mormon’s believe we have stronger love ties, or consider other marriages inferior? Believing that a marriage can be sealed for eternity doesn’t make other marriages inferior, it makes them worth maintaining. That is the goal in LDS theology, to continue bonds that exist, not to look down at other relationships. Why insist on contributing to misunderstandings and discord? You most definitely have produced a caricature masquerading as a factual article.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Because they are, obviously. To imply the sources aren’t legit is just grasping at straws.

  • Wendell Welling

    Jack, I can state categorically that our garments do not have nipples. I don’t know where you could have gotten that one from. As for the Book of Mormon contradicting the Bible all over the place, that is ridiculous. And, we don’t baptize the dead. We baptize for them. They being aware of their surrounding on the other side of the veil can accept or reject the ordinance. It is a proxy ordinance, and other Christian religions have their own ways of doing something for the deceased. Further, we don’t BASE baptism for the dead on 1 Corinthians 15:29 as you state. We do use that verse to show that Paul was aware of it during his time. The fact is that the ordinance was only officially stopped by a Catholic Council in the later fourth Century. To say that this rite has always been peculiar to Mormons belies the fact that you haven’t studied it beyond the bare surface.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Actually – the “old expose’” was actually pretty accurate as well – although I can completely understand why someone of a particular faith under question would feel the need to be defensive about those revelations. Why insist on confirming those revelations and repeating them here? Because the truth – however painful for many to accept – deserves repeating.

  • Wendell Welling

    By default? Really? No interviews, no commitment, no necessity of evidencing any desire at all to be ordained? The comments on this thread are beyond hilarious.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    “And, we don’t baptize the dead. We baptize for them. They being aware of their surrounding on the other side of the veil can accept or reject the ordinance.”

    That’s the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever heard, and is simply an approach of justifying a practice that is unjustifiable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    I notice you ignore the use of an anti-Mormon source while completely ignoring Mormon sources and how credible historians use those same documents in arguments against the church on a regular basis…

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Tell me about it!
    Tell me Wendell, in order to insure that one is not mistakenly perceived as desiring to “accept ordinance” after death, does one need to make out a living will? “Please do not allow Mormons to baptize me after death….” or something like that?

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    Mormons believe all individuals will have baptism performed on their behalf at some point, in fact, that’s a large part of the work that will be done during the millennium. Again, if you think it’s a worthless practice what difference does it make?

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.bradford.94 Randy Bradford

    The problem is the percentage of truth presented is pretty small. Do you need me to go point by point and cite sources as well? I’d be happy to if have an honest portrayal of the LDS belief system is something you wish to achieve.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Yes – I’d be more than happy to publish a follow-up article with a counter-balance to this article, and I’d even link to it from this one. It would need to be between 500 to 800 words with claims supported by sources – email me at ryan-at-topsecretwriters.com.

  • swattz101

    For the current practice of Baptism by Proxy, the names must be submitted by a family member. Can be a distant family member, and some people do abuse this idea. This was put in place because of people submitting famous names, and partially because people were upset when it was found out that holocaust victims were baptized. There are procedures in place to try and make this happen, but unfortunately, people try and sometimes succeed at getting past them.

    As for the baptism itself, we believe that everyone will have the chance to accept the ordinance in the afterlife. They also have the ability to deny it. Yes people are still offended. And even if you have a living will, 100 years from now, your great great great grand nephew may not have access to it or ignore it, unfortunately.

  • Evertsen1010

    Wow that sounds like the argument of a ten year old once again. The response you give is ridiculous. Who tought you to write? Where did you go to school. I want to know so I know where my children should not attend.

  • Evertsen1010

    That does not sound biased at all. Here is a suggestion. Visit a ward and interview a Bishop. You need to be educated an well versed on religions in order to write on them. This article is the worst thing I have ever read. I have spent time debating with religious leaders and if any of us were to write an unfounded completely one sided rant we would be unwelcome in any educational institution for lecture. You should be ashamed and distance your self from this article as far as possible.

  • Evertsen1010

    Stick to your UFO stories. Leave real research to real writers. Your a so called engineer. Do you not have anything more important to do. Maybe you are a horrible engineer much like your investigative writing? Time to find what your good at and stick with that? What researchers did you work with? What websites did you help? Weird how you don’t name any names there on your bio, but I guess citing stuff is not your strong suit huh?

  • Anonymous

    Well, I have to assume that this posting, on a subject with which I am well acquainted, is indicative of the professionalism and quality of this source. With that assumption in mind I can say that I have rarely encountered a more one-sided, error-filled, bigoted account of what Mormons believe. It is completely ridiculous and filled with intentional misinformation and lies. I am appalled at the bald-faced disregard for accuracy portrayed by this article and am forced to conclude that I can have no confidence in the accuracy of any other article I find on the “Top Secret Writers” site. It impresses me as being an extremely amateur and juvenile collection of people with hidden agendas and no concern for presenting truth. I would be embarrassed to present such drivel to the world as an example of my craftsmanship.

  • Anonymous

    Well, I have to assume that this posting, on a subject with which I am well acquainted, is indicative of the professionalism and quality of this source. With that assumption in mind I can say that I have rarely encountered a more one-sided, error-filled, bigoted account of what Mormons believe. It is completely ridiculous and filled with intentional misinformation and lies. I am appalled at the bald-faced disregard for accuracy portrayed by this article and am forced to conclude that I can have no confidence in the accuracy of any other article I find on the “Top Secret Writers” site. It impresses me as being an extremely amateur and juvenile collection of people with hidden agendas and no concern for presenting truth. I would be embarrassed to present such drivel to the world as an example of my craftsmanship.

  • Anonymous

    Well, I have to assume that this posting, on a subject with which I am well acquainted, is indicative of the professionalism and quality of this source. With that assumption in mind I can say that I have rarely encountered a more one-sided, error-filled, bigoted account of what Mormons believe. It is completely ridiculous and filled with intentional misinformation and lies. I am appalled at the bald-faced disregard for accuracy portrayed by this article and am forced to conclude that I can have no confidence in the accuracy of any other article I find on the “Top Secret Writers” site. It impresses me as being an extremely amateur and juvenile collection of people with hidden agendas and no concern for presenting truth. I would be embarrassed to present such drivel to the world as an example of my craftsmanship.

  • Disappointed

    Wow. That was not even a clever or well done anti-Mormon article.

    If someone’s going to think the Mormons are goofy, I sure hope it’s from a better done piece than this one.

  • Disappointed

    Wow. That was not even a clever or well done anti-Mormon article.

    If someone’s going to think the Mormons are goofy, I sure hope it’s from a better done piece than this one.

  • Disappointed

    Wow. That was not even a clever or well done anti-Mormon article.

    If someone’s going to think the Mormons are goofy, I sure hope it’s from a better done piece than this one.

  • Marsha Maxwell

    Many of these statements are absolutely untrue.

  • Anonymous

    My four-year-old nephew knows more about Mormonism than the author of this article.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Just so this is clear – sites that mention anything anti-Mormon are not good sources, and sites that only promote the Mormon religion are “legitimate” sources. I see…

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Probably because you raised him a Mormon….

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    You’re really hoping there’s a better-written piece on how Mormon’s are goofy?

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Nice to see a level-headed person posting here for once. Thanks for the added info Jack. Interesting stuff.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    This makes it very clear that, because of your indoctrination, you simply don’t see the forest for the trees. There are those out there that do believe in baptism, but may feel this behavior of having it “performed on their behalf” is not only wrong but terribly unethical and immoral.

  • Anonymous

    No need to hope. I’ve read hundreds of better-written pieces.

  • Anonymous

    My Catholic neighbor knows more about Mormonism than the author of this article. My atheist neighbor does too. So do my evangelical friends…

    I counted at least ten easily verifiable falsehoods in the article. If you consider yourself educated about Mormonism, can you name five of them?

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    You want me to guess 5 of your subjective excuses for odd Mormon beliefs – that’s funny.

  • Anonymous

    “easily verifiable”

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Good for you – you should stick to reading tracts published and approved by the church then.

  • Scott

    Is this for real? This woman knows nothing about Mormonism! Several of these are flat-out wrong. I don’t really understand the “Love isn’t as strong for non-Mormons” point. What proof is she giving for this claim?..And what does it even mean? I think a 6 year old could write a more cogent article. Also Mormons don’t necessarily believe the world is 7000 years old. Many Mormons believe the creative “days” in Genesis are actually creative periods that could have been billions of years in length. Again, where is her citation? Also, there is no specific guidance that no TV can be watched on Sunday. Of her “citations”, one is from a chat thread, a couple are from anti-Mormon websites, and one is a broken link. This author is a complete idiot.

  • Anonymous

    You seem to think that everybody thinks this piece is garbage simply because it’s critical of the LDS church. While the bias is obvious, it’s also so poorly researched and written that even anti-mormon websites contradict it. Would you like some examples?

  • Anonymous

    The bio for the author states “She endeavours to enlighten readers about news they were never aware existed.”

    She’s absolutely right on that one- especially when you make up stuff that doesn’t actually exist!

  • Anonymous

    As one who grew up a Mormon, this list is what non-Mormons think Mormons believe, not what Mormons actually believe. Mormons aren’t the 7000 year old Earth types, and I watched quite a lot of TV every single Sunday without any repercussions. I also find it a bit sad that things like tithing and Sunday being a day of rest are not “true Christian” beliefs any more.

  • Anonymous

    If you’re going to point out weird Mormon beliefs (or any “weird” beliefs) shouldn’t they at least be accurate?

  • Anonymous

    Don’t forget the unicorns.

  • Anonymous

    Based on your posts, you seem the type who would congratulate the devil himself as he spews garbage against the Mormons, which you clearly have a personal issue with.

  • Shane

    It’s one thing to dislike someone for what they believe. It’s another thing to dislike them based off of false assumptions and information. This article is completely sourced from everyone but a Mormon. This article is disappointing. I thought we were an educated society? The author has lost all credibility.

  • Anonymous

    That was the only part of the article that was correct.

    “In placing a huge emphasis on the family and taking care of one another,
    it doesn’t seem surprising that there are approximately 7 million
    Mormons in the United States and it is the fastest growing religion in
    North America.”

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    How are you defining “anti-Mormon” websites exactly? Any site that happens to publish anything that may not align with pro-Mormon teachings? I’m not sure what criteria is used to discredit those sources.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    No – I seem to think, based on past experience, that when a group of people are all offended by a particular article, they tend to attack en masse – that does not reflect the opinion of the true majority.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Sorry – this sounds like am immature grade-school comment that doesn’t even deserve a response.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    This is great feedback from the Mormon perspective. Thank you. I’ve shared this with Gabrielle and our editor. We may consider getting input from a life-long Mormon on some of these things that “non-Mormons think Mormons believe”. Thanks.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    They are accurate based on a large number of sources, many of which were not even cited for this article. The majority of the discomfort seems to come from the fact that many Mormons here feel the portrayal of those beliefs is inaccurate – which may be a valid argument. I’m actually interested in exploring this further and posting a follow-up article (or articles). Discussing with our editor now. Thanks for the feedback.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Not really – if you took the time to look into my own past writing, you would see that I explore a long list of belief systems – people that belief in aliens, abductions, UFOs, reptiles, angels, ghosts, and in this case – the application of baptism-after-death, among other things. We explore such beliefs from the perspective of an open-minded skeptic, and try to understand the truth behind any such beliefs (if any) and/or the psychology behind what makes people believe such things. As you can imagine, we tend to offend people that believe in aliens, UFOs, abductions, etc…. It’s part of looking for the truth – you do happen to offend people who’ve already decided on their own truth and are no longer very open-minded about exploring alternatives.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I think it’s a valid statement that the article could have used a quote or comment from someone within the Mormon church. It was – as the owner/editor I fully admit – an examination of what non-Mormons out there tend to understand about Mormon beliefs. As bytebear accurately pointed out – there may have been some things that could have been learned from getting a quote or two from folks within the Mormon church. This is something myself and my chief editor are now looking at doing as a possible follow-up, in an effort to respond to some of the sort of beliefs commonly understood as fully “Mormon” within the mainstream. Should be an interesting follow-up, which we’ll link to from this and my own Mormon article on the underground vaults. Thanks for the feedback.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    A few more sources and quotes for those claiming the article doesn’t have enough “legitimate” citations. We can obtain more if necessary – an entire follow-up article with more evidence if required. Although, from a few of these sources I understand there’s significant effort out there to prevent this kind of information from being considered as credible at all…might explain the great number of attack-comments in this particular thread.

    slate.com – (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/10/is_mormonism_a_cult_who_cares_it_s_their_weird_and_sinister_beli.html)

    “They can be ordered to turn upon and shun any members who show any signs of backsliding. They have distinctive little practices, such as the famous underwear, to mark them off from other mortals, and they are said to be highly disciplined and continent when it comes to sex, booze, nicotine, and coffee. Word is that the church can be harder to leave than it was to join. Hefty donations and tithes are apparently appreciated from the membership.”

    “More recently, and very weirdly, the Mormons have been caught amassing great archives of the dead, and regularly “praying them in” as adherents of the LDS, so as to retrospectively “baptize” everybody as a convert. (Here the relevant book is Alex Shoumatoff’s The Mountain of Names.) ”

    Wnd.com (http://www.wnd.com/2011/10/354721/)

    “The daughter of a Mormon bishop who has abandoned her family’s faith claims in a new book the election of Mitt Romney to the presidency would put the U.S. in danger due to what she calls the Republican’s “outrageous,” “horrific” and “mind-controlling” beliefs.”

    “The author, who herself was married in a Mormon temple at age 19 but now considers herself a non-denominational Christian, says there’s a secret agenda Mormon officials don’t like to talk about publicly. ‘A complete takeover of the government,’ she said. ‘They have more people in the CIA, the FBI. They have an employment office for Mormons in D.C. to be able to infiltrate them into the government.’”

    “Erickson claims Romney and other Mormons take part in clandestine marriage ceremonies involving “outrageous” customs. Explaining her own Mormon wedding, she says she was forced to completely disrobe against her will.

    ‘It was horrific,’ she told WND. ‘There I was standing naked. They brought this bowl of water, and started washing my body down and whispering prayers over my body. They stopped over the right and left breast, the navel and knees and prayed specific prayers.’

    To help ensure the general public did not learn details of the rituals, she says believers took a symbolic knife to feign their own murder if members spilled the beans of what really goes on behind closed doors.”

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I’m sorry bud – but a comment from “Brian_C” or “bytebear” is not a source, it’s an anonymous user making their own unsubstantiated claims. If you’d like to talk and provide your own evidence/information for follow-up article with counter-points and evidence, let me know. My contact information is always available on our contact page, and I’m always open to direct, private and open discussion with potential sources. I am very much non-anonymous and always open to having a mature, direct conversation.

  • Anonymous

    Ha ha ha!
    Now you’ve reached a new low! Quoting Trisha Erickson! She was interviewed on CNN and totally embarrassed when her claims were all exposed as gibberish. Even other anti-mormons criticized her for making stuff up.
    Not only is she not a credible source, she is a confirmed non-credible source. (even worse than this site)

  • Anonymous

    Ha ha ha!
    Now you’ve reached a new low! Quoting Trisha Erickson! She was interviewed on CNN and totally embarrassed when her claims were all exposed as gibberish. Even other anti-mormons criticized her for making stuff up.
    Not only is she not a credible source, she is a confirmed non-credible source. (even worse than this site)

  • Anonymous

    Ha ha ha!
    Now you’ve reached a new low! Quoting Trisha Erickson! She was interviewed on CNN and totally embarrassed when her claims were all exposed as gibberish. Even other anti-mormons criticized her for making stuff up.
    Not only is she not a credible source, she is a confirmed non-credible source. (even worse than this site)

  • Travis

    Gabrielle & Ryan, this type of writing flames out fast. I had a website like this that got a 130K hits after 3 weeks and then it flamed out. You run out of inflaming topics that get readers. This Blog category is sure fun to write in though, it’s somewhere between gossip rags and writing on the bathroom wall. I just love to see people post comments as if this was legitimate. Best of luck.

  • Mark Donnelson

    Terri, as a born-and-bred member of the LDS church, I have to take issue with much of what you said:

    1. True, but “we” do believe that each person who lives “worthy” of the Celestial Kingdom can create their own worlds and be GODS over them. Really, it’s an issue of semantics, and the reality is just as ridiculous.

    2. Tithing in the way the church teaches it is EXTORTION, plain and simple. “Pay us 10% of everything you make, or you’re dooming your family to eternal gloom.” You can’t attend the temple if you’re not paying the church 10% of everything you make. Should I also go into the complete lack of transparency surrounding church spending? Most major churches are an open book; you know exactly where your money goes. With the Mormon church, your tithes get invested, then the gains from those investments are used for numerous things; Temples, churches, sure…but also for-profit ventures such as the City Creek Mall and the church’s countless other businesses. While your tithing may not go from your pocket to a for-profit business, the interest earned on your tithing does. Take a look at what the church has spent on humanitarian aid in the last two decades, and prepare to be astonished (hint: it’s not good).

    3. Sure, but don’t even dream of attaining the highest level of glory if you don’t give the church 10% of your income. Nevermind that you can’t pay your mortgage…the LORD WILL PROVIDE (yeah right).

    4. The lack of specifics on what keeping the sabbath day holy means in the church causes a lot of confusion, I’ll give you that.

    5. Yes, Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black men, Unfortunately, several of the “prophets” after him were bigots and racists. But it’s OK, because they were “speaking as men, not as prophets,” right? No. I thought a prophet would never lead the church astray? Unfortunately, that has proven to be completely false. The church’s history with racism is completely disgusting. And a slight tangent…Joseph may not have been a racist, but he was far from moral and honest. He had 32+ secret wives, 12+ of which were OTHER MEN’S WIVES. Should we also talk about the wives as young as 14? He took this secret to his grave, but even church leaders won’t deny it now. It’s written in the books of history, and the proof is beyond deniability.

    Pull your head out of the sand, lady.

  • Mark Donnelson

    “There isn’t a single LDS Source…”

    Maybe because LDS sources are typically whitewashed to give you only the nice, rosy picture? The Mormon church teaches that researching the “gospel” claims in any source that’s not church-approved will lead you astray. That’s like going to the Ford dealer and relying on only their opinion on the reliability of Ford Trucks. “Hey Ford salesman, do you think I should buy an F150? Are they good trucks? I will trust your opinion and yours alone!”

    It’s really no different.

  • Mark Donnelson

    Again, this goes back to the Mormon mindset that anything that calls into question the divinity of the “gospel” is “anti-Mormon.” As a lifelong member of the church, this mindset is a large part of what has driven me away and allowed me to come to my senses.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Thanks for the 1st-hand feedback Mark. What has impressed me here is how aggressively the propaganda force comes out to try and discredit anything that brings these things to light. It’s eye-opening. Better be careful – a few are going to arrive here and start comparing you to “Satan”. :-)

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Great analogy.

  • Mark Donnelson

    Ryan, it’s all good. I’m accustomed to being told that I’m under the influence of Satan and I’m dragging my family to hell with me. It’s par for the course when you start asking questions that LDS leadership can’t answer.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I would refer you to Mark Donnelson’s comments below – who was a member of the church and confirms much of what we’ve pointed out. It is very much a question of members of LDS working very hard to try and discredit the article, just as is done with every other article or person that calls into question these beliefs.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Any and all future comments making blanket attacks against the author of this article or this website, will be removed. Please focus on discussing specific issues/information inside of the article, and please provide evidence or sources to support your side of the debate. Provide comments with sources 24 hrs to be approved, as links get auto-marked for review. I will approve them all so long as they are part of a mature discussion about these issues. Attack/derogatory comments toward the author or this website will be automatically deleted and the user will be banned. I realize this topic is extremely sensitive for many – but that doesn’t mean the debate/discussion about the reality or non-reality of specific beliefs can’t be maturely discussed and proven or disproven.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Even the Mormon blogger from your source admits that Erickson has every right to share her perspective as a former Mormon. She also admits that Erickson’s bona-fides are better than her own, but that everyone has a right to provide their perspective.

    “Everyone who has ever been involved in Mormonism, including Tricia Erickson, has some kind of Mormon story. In that sense they — we — can and should speak for Mormonism.”

    The second source you cited (not approved) was very a very low-quality website using vitriolic language in a baseless hit-piece against Erickson.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Even the Mormon blogger from your source admits that Erickson has every right to share her perspective as a former Mormon. She also admits that Erickson’s bona-fides are better than her own, but that everyone has a right to provide their perspective.

    “Everyone who has ever been involved in Mormonism, including Tricia Erickson, has some kind of Mormon story. In that sense they — we — can and should speak for Mormonism.”

    The second source you cited (not approved) was very a very low-quality website using vitriolic language in a baseless hit-piece against Erickson.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Excellent point on Rumor #4 – although Gabrielle did point out the belief came into play prior to African-Americans being allowed into the Church. So, she did acknowledge they are allowed into the Church today – pointing out black membership doesn’t really disprove that the belief existed within the original tenets of the Church?

    Very good points under “Truth #1″

  • Anonymous

    African Americans (and anyone) have always been allowed church membership. Joseph Smith, in fact, ordained black men to the priesthood. Sometime during Brigham Young’s leadership, the practice of ordaining black men to the priesthood was stopped. This is commonly called the “priesthood ban” and was lifted in 1978. But blacks were always allowed membership, and the church didn’t even have segregated congregations and still doesn’t. That is a far more interesting fact about the church.

    By the way, the “black skin becoming lighter” actually comes from the Book of Mormon talking about the Lamanites coming back to the the church and becoming a “white and delightsome people” These Lamanites would be interpreted as Native Americans, not blacks.

    So, you have different practices and different “urban legends” colliding and are mixing them up into a supposed belief, that simply isn’t right on several levels.

  • Anonymous

    And talking donkeys

  • Anonymous

    The biggest problem you have is that seem to not know what you want to convey? Is your intent to clarify and get people familiar with Mormon beliefs and practices? Or is it to isolate Mormonism from the mainstream by making it look odd and bizarre? I suspect it is the latter.

    That aside, the presentation you give of Mormonism is so blatantly skewed from the truth, that any informed reader will simply leave with a sense of not knowing what is true and what isn’t. Even if you bring up legitimate issues they become marred by your obvious and aggressive bias toward anti-Mormon sources. Your defense of Tricia Erickson alone negates your entire argument as bogus. If you really want a dialogue about Mormonism, you must allow yourself room to admit you are wrong. And on many of these points, you are very very wrong.

  • Anonymous

    Is there any source cited that is from an official LDS source? I suggest you start there.

  • Anonymous

    Can you really find a source from any official LDS source that claims anything about dinosaurs? I highly doubt you will find anything beyond someone saying their 7th grade Sunday School teacher told them so.

  • Anonymous

    Ryan, that’s not a bad idea. They would at least reflect the actual Church teachings, and not wild speculation.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Thanks bytebear. However this statement confuses me:

    “These Lamanites would be interpreted as Native Americans, not blacks.”

    Where does that interpretation come from? I suppose it “could be”, but as you confirm here, the Book of Mormon does make the statement of a people coming “back” to the church and becoming white – is this interpretation your own or does it come from anywhere?

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Good – I’d be worried if you were 100% certain which side we fall on. The point is – our goal is neither. It’s only to reveal the truth (about these beliefs).

    What might be confusing you is that we don’t accept the assumptions you’ve probably already made regarding what you believe to be the truth. We’re exploring these beliefs from more of a viewpoint of a person first encountering the belief-set, and trying to understand why they exist in the first place. I’m sure you can at least imagine what many of these must look like from the outside.

    Your confusion might come from the fact that you’ve already adopted the beliefs, and so have a subset of already accepted assumptions. The idea that someone may question these beliefs or consider them odd might seem ridiculous to you, but to others viewing these beliefs, I assure you, they have the same concerns and questions.

    Efforts to discredit any folks – particularly former Mormons – that might speak out about such beliefs, is actually more reflective of you than it is of us.

  • Anonymous

    That Joseph Smith had many wives is not particularly hidden as some deep secret. Brigham Young was quite open about polygamy, and it’s probably the most prominent issue that people think of when they think of Mormonism.

    As to Smith marrying other men’s wives, and even girls as young as 14. Well, yes, and no. He was sealed to them for eternity, but not married to them temporally. There is no proof that he ever slept with them. And he never lived with them. When the idea of “sealings” or being joined with someone for eternity was introduced, it was a great honor to be sealed to Joseph Smith. Women wanted to be sealed to him, even if they had husbands already (and especially if their husbands weren’t Mormons). Heber C Kimball (an apostle) wanted his daughter sealed to Smith, so Helen Mar Kimball was sealed to Smith when she was 14. But she never claimed to have any other relationship whatsoever. She still lived with her parents, and later married another man when she came of age.

    As for tithing, yep, it’s expected.

    And as to becoming GODS, it is a matter of semantics, because there is a distinction between God and becoming “gods”. Here’s what the Bible says about it:

    let them have dominion: Gen. 1:26 .
    man is become as one of us: Gen. 3:22 .
    be holy: for I … am holy: Lev. 19:2 . ( 1 Pet. 1:16 . )
    madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands: Ps. 8:6 .
    Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High: Ps. 82:6 .
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father: Matt. 5:48 .
    Is it not written in your law … Ye are gods: John 10:34 .
    we are the offspring of God: Acts 17:29 .
    heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ: Rom. 8:17 .
    changed into the same image from glory to glory: 2 Cor. 3:18 .
    if a son, then an heir of God through Christ: Gal. 4:7 .
    Till we all come … unto a perfect man: Eph. 4:13 .
    be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live: Heb. 12:9 .
    when he shall appear, we shall be like him: 1 Jn. 3:2 .
    him that overcometh will … sit with me in my throne: Rev. 3:21 .

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Great resource – thank you. I encourage other readers here to visit LDS.net and ask straightforward questions about some of the beliefs described here.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    As other non-Mormon readers here have explained, many believe LDS sources to be whitewashed and not a 100% accurate resource for things that the LDS leadership may not want known.

    It’s sort of like trying to use the NSA website to get information about the leaked NSA surveillance program. That wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense, would it.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    As other non-Mormon readers here have explained, many believe LDS sources to be whitewashed and not a 100% accurate resource for things that the LDS leadership may not want known.

    It’s sort of like trying to use the NSA website to get information about the leaked NSA surveillance program. That wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense, would it.

  • Anonymous

    Ryan, don’t use excuses for poor scholarship. You haven’t revealed anything other than a thinly veiled agenda. And the Mormons aren’t the ones who suffer for your efforts. If anything, a conscientious reader will do a few minutes of research and will see that you have no credibility. When you present something as fact, that turns out not to be, then it becomes very difficult to convince anyone that anything you say is true. The Mormons you are engaging are exactly right. They see you as a joke. They’ve heard all of these crazy accusations their entire lives.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    In that case, could I obtain full access to the Granite Mountain Records Vault for a research article I would personally write? I’m willing to pay to fly myself there, out of my own pocket.

    After touring all areas of the records vault, I will personally write an article telling everyone how open the LDS leadership is to revealing everything about the religion in full public view.

  • Anonymous

    But you don’t delve into the historical and spiritual aspects of the practice. For example, did you know that baptism for the dead was a practice of some early Christians? Are you aware of the New Testament scriptures that talk about Christ preaching to the dead in the afterlife? Are you familiar with how the practice is done in the church today? Do Mormons worship their dead? Is the actual ordinance elaborate or simple? Do the people performing it even know the names for which they are doing the act?

    You see, what you do is take some concept, morph it and twist it into something it is not, and then mock your created straw man.

    We humans are creatures who create rituals. From superstitions to help your favorite sports team win, to making sure your bathroom ritual is orderly and complete. That some people pray over their ancestors is simply another ritual in hopes that there is something to look forward to after death.

    If you find it offensive, or something worth mocking, that’s your prerogative, but I embrace the ritual and any of the beautiful rituals that different cultures have created, from Buddhist Monk prayers to Native American rain dances to Maori tattoos.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I don’t find such beliefs offensive at all, and I find the ideas you’ve written here to be extremely enlightening and helpful.

    What I don’t think you realize is that it’s *you* that finds offense at the very idea of the general public questioning the veracity of some of these beliefs that seem to make no sense on the surface. Also – accounts by former members of LDS (such as Mark – a fellow commenter here) should not be so quickly brushed off as you seem to do – that’s a disturbing behavior, and their perspectives should be considered just as yours should be.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I request access to the Granite Mountain Records Vault for a full tour of all areas, for a feature research article to prove that LDS is fully open about all rituals and practices, and that statements by former members that LDS leadership is trying to hide things is completely false. Can you pass on this request to LDS leadership?

  • Anonymous

    The Book of Mormon tells the story of the family of Lehi. Lehi was a prophet who was told by God to build a ship and sail away. He was guided from the Old World (Jerusalem) to the New World (somewhere in the Americas).

    Once there his family was split into two factions, those that remained faithful following his son Nephi (becoming the Nephites), and those that abandoned their faith and followed his son Lamen (becoming the Lamanites). These two groups fight throughout the book, ultimately leading to the destruction of the Nephites. The Lamanites then become at least a faction of modern Native Americans.

    However, interpretations vary, and it’s commonly interpreted that the term Lamanite came to mean anyone outside their group. Similar to Jew and Gentile.

    In, the narrative, the concept of becoming white/pure is used in a few places. It’s a bit controversial because some interpret it as skin color, others as metaphorical. Or perhaps a bit of both, if the outsiders’ tribe was made up of darker skinned people. It seems reasonable that the Nephites would condemn the intermarriage with darker skinned outsiders. But if you don’t believe in tribalism, or that a just God could condone such blatant racism, then I suppose the discussion is lost on you.

    You ask where this is written? I recommend you read the Book of Mormon. Your interpretation of course, may vary as it does with anyone reading a subjective subject .

  • Anonymous

    The vault only contains genealogical records. They are all online now. If you really want to find the “secret” mormon writings, read the Journal of Discourses, also online and published by the church. They are essentially meeting notes from the first few decades of the church in the 1800s. They are full of all sorts of crazy concepts. But Mormons don’t see those an canonical, nor do they look at any speeches or writings as official unless they are canonized in what they call the Standard Works which are the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. Everything outside of those books are considered speculative, although they may help members create their own interpretations and ideas. Hence, the dinosaur belief. Some may believe some odd story of their creation, but there is nothing whatsoever that comes from the church.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Thanks for the explanation.

    “Your interpretation of course, may vary as it does with anyone reading a subjective subject.”

    I think that was the best statement of this entire comment thread.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    No – I’d actually like to visit the physical vault itself to see whether or not it’s true there’s a ritual chamber where baptisms of the dead take place – where people who were never Mormon, nor related to anyone who was Mormon, are baptized as Mormon – similar to the whole Jewish-baptism episode that the church received much flak for in the media not long ago.

    If as you say church leaders don’t hide anything, this shouldn’t be a problem.

  • Anonymous

    I have no problem with anyone questioning Mormonism. In fact, it’s encouraged within the church. If you don’t believe it, don’t become a Mormon, or walk away. Clearly there are plenty of people who have.

    I also stopped attending church 15 years ago. I have no reason to defend the “truth” but I do feel an obligation to correct “facts.” That’s where we differ, and that’s where I dismiss people like Mark. He throws out ideas with only partial information, or uses his “experiences” to paint church members and practices with a very broad brush. And this article feeds off of those “urban legends” of Mormonism. It’s laughable.

  • Theron

    None of these bullet points are completly true. General ideas have been greatly exaggerated and twisted by the author own words or by bad sources. This article is terrible and not at all accurate.

  • Anonymous

    They used to do tours. I don’t know if they do any more.

    Baptism for the Dead are performed in Temples.

    Google “Mormon Temple Baptismal Font” and you will see hundreds of pictures of them.

    The design of the font comes from the Old Testament. 1 Kings 7 where the temple of Solomon is being described, and there is a brazen sea held up by 12 oxen representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

    If you really want to see it, find a temple about to be dedicated and they do tours of the building and you can the entire temple yourself.

    Oh and if you really want to dig into the issue, and see what the building is all about, you can find various building permits and such which have full blueprints of the buildings.

  • Anonymous

    Well, of course. There are thousands of Christian churches all interpreting the Bible differently. Why would it be any different with the Book of Mormon. In the LDS Church you don’t have a liturgy or catechism where you have to believe everything exactly one way. There are basic principles that you should believe (see Articles of Faith) which tell you the basics, but after that, you’re on your own. So if you want to believe that all Native Americans are direct descendents of Lehi, that’s your choice, but it’s hardly a requirement and even a detriment given the overwhelming evidence against such a theory.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    They’ve only provided YouTube video of the complex. No public is allowed inside of the vaults – for a facility only containing microfiche records, that seems a rather extreme approach. I will try to contact LDS leadership to get a tour, but I’m not holding my breath…

  • Anonymous

    What do you expect to find?

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Preferably, nothing but vaults filled with microfiche records. I like going into such an investigation giving the official stance the benefit of the doubt. However, not having physical access at all tends to introduce a grain of doubt to the official stance.

  • Anonymous

    Well, the vaults were built to protect and preserve the data, not to hide it away. Now that we have the internet, and a dozen new ways to preserve data, there is less of a need, but still it’s always to have a hard copy.

    Grains of doubt. I would worry less about what the Mormons are doing and more about what the government is doing if you want to get into secret conspiracy theories.

    Mormonism is pretty much an open book. Even the “mysteries” of the temple are all online for those who wish to find them, although it’s really not the same as being a participant, which anyone can do as well, as long as you go through the steps necessary for qualification. Unlike other religions, Mormons really don’t have a separate class for clergy. There are no secret rites only for Cardinals or High Priests or other Holy Men. All Mormons qualify for holiness and are invited to participate in these private rituals. Perhaps that;s why they are seen as odd, because they are common. When you think of other religions who have their own private/secret rituals or holy places, they are only open to a very few. Because Mormons open the door to everyone, they become more scrutinized because 1) more people know about them from first hand experience and 2) because you are invited but must qualify, which means you somehow feel unworthy of something given to essentially everyone.

    I suppose it’s easier to dismiss the monk who must live a life of poverty, silence and live on top of a hill in a cave or something because no one can achieve that, so he is left with his secrets. But Mormon secrets aren’t all that secret, so it then becomes exclusive which tends to make the outsider want to challenge the requirements for higher enlightenment.

    Here, you have heard there are secret baptism fonts in this mysterious vault, but I have shown you these fonts are not particularly secretive, are housed in temples and not this vault, and have given you hundreds of photos published by the church to show what they are and what their meaning is to church members. Because it’s because you cannot actively participate or because you lack the knowledge of these things that you find them offensive or “secretive”. I think that’s your issue to come to terms with, not the church’s.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Not sure why you insist on this strawman argument that I find anything offensive. If we found these things offensive, we would avoid exploring these beliefs at all.

    Yes – you’ve shared all of the publicly available information about baptism fonts inside Mormon temples. We are supposed to take your claim on faith that there’s “nothing to see” inside of the mountain vault? And we’re supposed to just take your assurances on faith that there’s nothing at all going on, despite past questionable activity discovered where LDS posthumously baptized Jewish Holocaust Victims? http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/ldsagree.html

    It is this kind of past activity that leads people to question what other beliefs/practices might be at work here. How can you blame people for wondering?

    These are important questions to ask and worthy of public review. If anyone has issues to come to terms with – it’s folks that would posthumously baptize holocaust victims. There’s a real problem when that kind of disrespectful activity is allowed to occur inside of any organization.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    As a counter-balance, I would also encourage readers to explore exmormon.org to read about the religion from the perspective of former members of the church.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Also, how would you respond to this story from an ex-Mormon? http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Mormon-Church-I-was-raised-to-be-RACIST

    “Our Bishop called the girl and her parents into his office and open his scriptures to those wonderful scriptures in the book of abraham and the book of moses and explained to the girl and her parents about the Lamanite curse and how if she married this boy and had children by him that all of her descendants forever would have the Lamanite curse of dark skin and would not be blessed as she was being white.”

    You’re saying they’re making these things up?

  • Anonymous

    There are millions upon millions of names in the church’s ancestry files. They are all submitted by church members. Some members took it upon themselves to just bulk load various records for baptism. This was against church policy, but there were very few verification sytems in place, particularly when it was all done on paper.

    The church has worked extensively with various Jewish groups to tighten the checks against unauthorized names being put into the system.

    Now, if you want to discuss Mormon/Jewish interactions, you should look beyond Baptism for the Dead. For example, did you know that in the 1800s a Mormon apostle dedicated Jerusalem for the gathering of Israel? Did you know that Mormons helped establish the first Jewish Synagog in Salt Lake. They also were instrumental in establishing the first Catholic diocese, and most recently donated money in the 1990s to build a Hare Krisha temple in Provo.

    If you want to read a really good blog, check out the Jewish Journal which has a Mormon contributor who submits various articles on Mormon and Jewish relations and theological interests.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Former members list a litany of things they felt LDS leaders were or are hiding. I suppose they would know better than anyone. http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/What-exactly-did-you-find-out-or-discover-first

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Why look beyond Baptism for the Dead? This was a fascinating revelation of what really went on behind closed doors — and it’s reasonable for people to question what similar activity goes on today. You are trying to change the subject.

  • DJ Woolley

    Funny how you always follow Maria’s comments with a thanks for his first hand knowledge, as if he isn’t biased, and say that anybody who disagrees with you is biased. Fact iis that you are a troll liking to get a reaction and have absolutely no interest in the truth. You find a negative item on the internet, and resource it asas objrctive, reliable, and generalizable simply because you like it, and ignore any evidence to the contrary. Have fun with your life based on negativity and bashing.

  • Anonymous

    No, I know Mormonism far better than you, and I know you are simply not presenting truth at all.

  • Anonymous

    By the way, the systems insecurity allowed non-Mormons (anti-Mormons) to submit controversial names and then turn around and call the media claiming Mormons were “at it again.” Perhaps that should be your focus on a conspiracy.

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    There’s no evidence to support this baseless claim. You’re trying to blame anti-Mormons for the activity now? There is however evidence to support it was very much a “planned program” of the Mormon church. No claims in comments will be approved without citations.
    http://www.avotaynu.com/mormon.htm

    “Information in the IGI can be traced to its source, and I determined that the source was a book located in the Family History Library entitled Lijst van Nederlandee jooden die gestorven zijn gedurende de tweede wereld oorlog (List of Dutch Jews, prisoners and missing people that have died in concentration camps during World War II). Spot checking a few other names from the Dutch book, it was clear that other names had been extracted and other Jews had been baptized. The source information in the IGI also revealed that the extraction was not the act of individuals but a planned program of the Mormon Church.”

  • Anonymous

    Runnign scared now? Come on. Block my commentary if you must, but if you are not afraid of truth, then you need to allow discussion.

    The fact is, a woman did break into the system with the full intent of making the church look bad.

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    lds.org only mentions one of Brigham Young’s wives. He had up to 55. 16 of them produced his 57 children.

    Why no mention of the other 54 on lds.org? Perhaps it’s not the best source of information if you’re really looking for the truth.

  • Zerin Mount

    Most of the supposed doctrines listed are not now nor have they ever been official doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Here are a few comments and clarifications: (1) ***Editor’s note: Subjective attack removed*** (2) Mormons are not required to tithe their gross; rather, they are asked to give back to God 10% of their “increase”, which may be interpreted by each individual (I pay tithe on my net because I understand that number); (3) Mormons do not believe that dark skin will become white, though some Mormons of the past did interpret some Book of Mormon passages to mean that skin color could change among some populations in the Book of Mormon on the basis of Gospel adherence: this is not accepted by Mormons; (4) It is not now nor has it ever been official (or even semi-official) doctrine that dinosaur bones came from other planets! I have heard this said two or three times in my decades as a Mormon, and it has never been said in a church–dinosaurs obviously lived and died on this earth and lived millions of years before humans; (5) Mormons do not teach that we each receive a planet from God; rather, the teaching is simple (and true): God is our father, and we may become like him (though never his equal) in the same we that a human father’s son may become like him; as God created this world for us, many Mormons assume that we, should we some day come to be like our Father in Heaven, may do the same for others–this is an ennobling doctrine, one that is grounded in the proclamations of Jesus and his disciples in the New Testament; (6) And how is it that this article does not mention the pre-mortal life? This is the most unique (and, in my opinion, satisfying) doctrine had by Mormons. We, as intelligences, have always existed. God, who was already perfect and all-knowing with an anthropomorphic body of flesh and bone, gave us spirit bodies in His likeness and thereby made us his children. He taught us for untold stretches of time until He felt we were ready to have the chance to become more like him. To do this, we would need physical bodies like His and the chance to choose to follow His will by faith. He knew we would make mistakes and thereby make ourselves unworthy to return to Him, and He therefore created a plan in which His son, Jesus, would agree to die for all of the sins of mankind. A third of us rebelled with Satan and lost the chance to obtain a body, but the rest of us agreed to God’s plan. We thus lived before this life, and life will go on for all of us after this mortal period. God be with you!

  • Anonymous

    “Radkey was surreptitiously using the account information of Mormon confidants to access the system.”

    http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/2012/03/apostate-ex-mormon-helen-radkey-hoisted.html

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Your attempt to manipulate the facts of this case to frame Radkey – the person that revealed the truth about the baptism of Jewish holocaust victims – as the cause of the baptisms in the first place, smacks of the sort of backwards-logic propaganda that we’ve seen in our research from the likes of Cold War Russian propagandists. It’s amazing to see.

    Here’s a bit of truth from a more credible source – the Huffington Post. In these news accounts, it’s clear that LDS is trying to plug the leak that revealed the truth in the first place. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/helen-radkey-mormon-baptisms-harassment-accusation_n_1333267.html

    “Jewish genealogist Gary Mokotoff said the change made by the church was designed to deny Radkey and other researchers the ability to uncover efforts by overzealous Mormons to posthumously baptize people outside their families. “It is not an effective way to block Holocaust victims but could seriously prevent Helen from searching for victims,” he said.”

    Also here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/mormon-proxy-baptism_n_1778904.html

    “The Mormon Church earlier this year tightened access to the database, with the stated aim of “preventing the misguided practice of submitting the names of Holocaust victims and prominent individuals for proxy baptism,” according to a church spokesman. Anyone who tries to access restricted names without proving a family relationship is automatically locked out of the system and his or her account is suspended. The security measures are seen by some as an effort to thwart Radkey’s research.”

  • Happy

    Where is the source for this: Love Isn’t as Strong for Non-Mormons

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    I believe that was from the ex-Mormon testimony (list), #19 here:
    http://www.lifeaftermormonism.net/profiles/blogs/101-nonpublic-or-weird-beliefs-of-mormons, and I would assume drawn from the doctrine described here at source #1:

    “According to the “Inspired Version of the Bible” Joseph Smith has translated this verse, “No man hath seen God at any time, except them who believe. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.”[17]”

    Although it would be interesting to ask MikeUtah about that item on his site and confirm where he came to that understanding from his past experience as a Mormon.

  • Caleb Willden

    Please do! That would be great for our missionary work! =)

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    The sources aren’t dubious – and I’m getting tired of you constantly making the baseless claim. They are mostly non-LDS sources, yes. You don’t respect non-LDS sources. That’s fine. Let’s agree to disagree on that.

    The real problem wasn’t so much the source you used, but it was your manipulation of the story from one where she accessed the database to obtain the names of Jewish holocaust victims that have *already* been baptized – to this theory that she’s the one that submitted the names for baptism. That is completely baseless, and an effort to turn the truth upside down on its head.

    Obviously the Church knew it was her because she’s one of the researchers that broke the story to the press after discovering the names – did you even read the news accounts?

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    You are a breath of fresh air…

  • Caleb Willden

    No…not by default. Young men 12 years old have the opportunity to be interviewed by their bishop and, if found worthy by the bishop, be ordained to the office of a deacon (mostly known by members to pass the sacrament at sacrament meetings on Sunday) and given the Aronic priesthood (also known as the preporatory priesthood).

    At 14, they can be ordained to the office of a teacher (mostly known by members to prepare the sacrament), and at 16, to the office of a priest (mostly known by members to bless the sacrament).

    At 18, a young man has the opportunity to be ordained to the office of an elder, and to recieve the Melchizedek priesthood (after interview with their bishop and stake president [another type of leader in the church]). http://www.lds.org/topics/melchizedek-priesthood?lang=eng

  • Caleb Willden

    Could you please explain why this would be unethical and immoral? I have some idea, but I would like to know better.

    We believe those who have been baptized by proxy can choose to accept it or not. It wouldn’t make sense to have it forced upon them.

    Would that change anything in regards to ethics, or no?

  • Caleb Willden

    Don’t forget Melchizedek Priesthood at age 18. (No need to use capital letters, by the way. Peaceful informatives are probably the best thing to use)

    I explain a bit more about the priesthood in a comment above, if anyone wants to search for it (Ctrl+f, “priesthood”, keep looking until you find it)

  • http://www.topsecretwriters.com Ryan Dube

    Can you explain how a dead person chooses to accept it?

  • Caleb Willden

    In your follow-up article (assuming you’re making one), it would be good to include the frequency the beliefs are mentioned and focused on. Some beliefs of the church may be true, but irrelevant to the purpose of the church and may not be taught to some.

    Feel free to email me at [**personal email address removed**] if you have any questions.

    I don’t want to attack anyone, but after reading those quotes you posted, the first one does have some truth, but has many false assumsions as well, as far as I can tell. A lot of it is the wording and phrasing.

    The WND one, however, does not represent the LDS church in any way, shape or form.

    I’d go through them and point out stuff, but that wouldn’t be appreciated by many (no one likes essay-length comments =) ), but if you want me to, let me know)

  • Caleb Willden

    Well, the way I see it is that if anything was hidden, it wouldn’t be a belief of the church or its members (which make up the church).

    If I were you, and I wanted to know more about the beliefs of the LDS church, I’d go to church to see what is taught. It’s not too hard to find a local church building and meeting hours on google maps or the church website.

  • Caleb Willden

    As a spirit in the spirit world.

    We believe that after someone dies, they keep on learning in the spirit world (Judgement day and entrance into heaven doesn’t come until after the Second Coming of Christ.), since you don’t magically gain all knowledge when you enter into the afterlife.

    They can still make choices in the afterlife. Some people may choose to accept the baptism or not.

    Think of it as something someone might want to have, like a hammer or a sandwich (I’m not good at analogies). If I’m given a hammer or a sandwich, I can use it if I feel I need to, but I don’t have to. (That was a terrible analogy, but I’ll leave it there.)

  • Caleb Willden

    But is it realy necessary to mention multiple wives? It doesn’t really contribute to the message of the gospel and what is taught within the church.

    Poligamy was a practice only carried out for a short time (Joseph Smith was reluctant to even do it) because there was a very large amount of widows in the church that couldn’t support their families.

    Surely you can’t base reliability of the church’s website on a lack of a fact that doesn’t relate to the church’s beliefs.

  • Lisa O.

    The official LDS stance on the age of the earth is that they have no opinion on the subject. Back in the 1920s, during the national uproar of the Scopes “Monkey” trial, several members of the leadership petitioned the Prophet to make a public statement on church doctrine in the matter. After hearing presentations from both sides of the argument (7,000 years v. ancient age of the earth AND the idea of evolution of humans, referred to by them as Pre-Adamites) The Prophet issued a statement saying, in essence, that if it was not was not directly related to the spread of the gospel of Jesus Christ, they really had no interest in taking a “side” in the discussion. Since then, several prominent LDS leaders have made statements as to their opinions, some rather forcefully, but neither side has been given the imprimatur of official church doctrine.

    The biggest problem with this issue and others like it is that respected leaders have made confident statements, that while not supported as official church doctrine, have been accepted by many Mormons as such. It is one of the difficulties of a rigid system of hierarchical leadership.

    If “so and so” said it, it must be true!

    Sigh.

    Source: Mornomism and Evolution: The Authoritative LDS Statements

  • Lisa O.

    I find it fascinating that one of your biggest sources is essentially an anti-Mormon website. Does it occur to you that most Mormons don’t know about these doctrines because they are NOT actually doctrines of the Church?
    While I must admit that I recognize a few of these bizarre statements as twisted versions of things that I have heard over the years, they sort of fall under the heading of what your crazy uncle would say, not what you would actually hear over the pulpit on Sunday.
    The thing is, because Mormons existed for so long in isolated groups due to persecution, they developed some strange culturisms that have nothing to do with official doctrine.
    For example,
    Have I met people who wear their church clothes all day after meetings and don’t let their kids watch TV or play with friends on Sunday? Yes.
    Is that official Church Doctrine? No.
    Most Mormons I know spend their Sundays after church not shopping, spending time with friends and family, and enjoying wholesome entertainment at home.
    So is the behavior of the “No TV on Sundays” family evidence of a “super secret” rule that only “some” know about?
    No. It is evidence that in every situation where people are trying to do the right thing, most will do so in moderation, but a few will always take it to extremes in an effort to be the righteous-est.
    The Mormon church isn’t the kind of organization where you have to be admitted to upper levels of secrecy in order to learn the next package of secret information.
    Official doctrine is pretty much laid out for everyone to see. There will always be crackpots with their strange theories, but I think that is just part of the human condition.

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    The art of Mormon ‘double talk’ and ‘lying for the lord’ all in one post.

    “Mormons do not believe that dark skin will become white, though some Mormons of the past did interpret some Book of Mormon passages to mean that skin color could change among some populations”

    “And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.” (3 Nephi 2:15)

    “…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.” (2 Nephi 30:6 – Pre 1981 LOL)

    So when the Mormon Prophet Spencer W Kimball referred to a 16-year-old Indian girl who was both LDS and “several shades lighter than her parents…” went on to say, “These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3)

    What exactly was he referring to?

    When you view the Book of Mormon as a 19th Century work of fiction, such racism was prevalent then, it makes sense. Now, it’s just embarrassing
    the excuses they try to make for it. I’ve no doubt in time it’ll be re-written again, completely removing such blatant racism.

    ‘You People’ just can’t re-write your own history fast enough. LOL

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    Wow, you sound exactly like Boyd K. Packer. Just ignore the truth if it’s not faith promoting.

    If you only read Mormon approved propaganda you will learn that Brigham Young was reluctant to practice polygamy too. I bet he really struggled to have so much sex with all the women in his harem, because God commanded him to. It must have been a terrible sacrifice.

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    Hi Caleb the faithful,

    Whilst you’re helping out. Could you explain the reasoning behind the fact that Men can still be sealed to multiple wives for all eternity, yet women may only ever be sealed to one husband.

    At least two of the current 12 apostles have temple re-married after the death of their first spouse and are looking forward to multiple sister wives in heaven – Russell M. Nelson & Dallin H. Oaks . I shouldn’t be too surprised if Prophet Monson is next, there must be little old Mormon dears queueing round the block to be one of his sister wives.

    Here’s a little poem Harold B. Lee, the 11th prophet of the “church” wrote on the subject.

    My lovely Joan was sent to me.
    So Joan joins Fern That three might be, more fitted for eternity.
    “O Heavenly Father, my thanks to thee”
    (Deseret News 1974 Church Almanac, p.17) .

  • Caleb Willden

    I assure you, I’m not on a mission in a PR department, but that’s irrelevant.

    Many members are quite aware that one can be sealed to multiple wives, but that is only with proper authorization. This docterine of multiple slealings allows for those who have had spouses that have passed away to remarry.

    I don’t think you’ll get too much fighting back, if that’s what you wanted. =)

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    Fighting Back, no, not at all. I just thought the subject matter suited the article. It’s a “weird” Mormon belief that most ‘normal minded’ people would find absolutely ludicrous if not incredibly sexist. LOL

    Don’t forget divorce. Divorce on Earth does not mean divorce for all eternity. Divorced wives still count as eternal Sister Wives in the Celestial Kingdom unless the divorced Sister Wife specifically applies to the Church Presidency for a “cancellation”. Many don’t for fear of eternal loneliness.

    How much common sense does it take to see how ludicrous the whole idea is? (Answer: Apparently a little more than 15 million Mormons have LOL)

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    Again,

    Your Church simply does not teach its members the Whole Truth.
    How many Mormons know about Joseph Smiths multiple contradicting First Vision Accounts?, His Rock in a hat? Or his penchant for 14 year old girls? Or “dirty nasty affairs” with the maid? How about the Book of Abraham Papyrus or the Kinderhook plates?

    Perhaps you could ask your Sunday School teacher to spend the next lesson explaining how it is the Book of Mormon contains over 700 plagiarisms directly from the KJV of the Bible including several known translation errors and scribe notes very specific to the edition of the KJV Bible that Joseph Smith Jr owned. And then compare its story to ‘View of the Hebrews’ published some 7 years before.

    The last place you will learn the truth about any one of these topics is inside a Mormon Church. LOL

  • Anonymous

    But in the bible it speaks on one heaven with all the original tribes .Mormon ,Catholic etc are all misinterpretations of the bibles most simplest texts so do not ever mention Christianity in the same sentence as these cults.

  • cosmic purple

    This is 100% true. When i first started reading anything not approved by the church, my heart raced and my hands trembled from the fear that had been instilled in me.

  • cosmic purple

    This article sensationalizes many of the mormon beliefs. It takes a belief and presents it in a manner that makes it seem outrageous. The mormon church does not have any beliefs that are that much more outrageous than most other religions. The truly weird part of the mormon church is the history; specifically the history that is taught to members vs. what actually happened.

  • http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/324/324.2/hizballah/ Sons of Ares

    Cite your sources, please.

  • http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/320/324/324.2/hizballah/ Sons of Ares

    Make sure to include the sudden acceptance of black people as well.

  • crisssy101

    Bytebear. You could be right, there could be something here Ryan is not considering but you’re too close to the topic to argue those reasons rationally. Facts. Argue the facts. Besides, iIsn’t getting offended and saying, “If you don’t like it don’t be a mormon.” exactly what you’re NOT supposed to do? (I could be wrong about that last part. I was under the impression from their persistence that they took saving people very seriously)

  • Robert Turner

    Wow. I have been a “Mormon” for almost 30 years and never heard some of this stuff.
    1. The Sabbath – We are not “told” we cannot watch television or “play” with other children. We are counselled to keep our activities in keeping with honoring the Sabbath and worshipping God. How we do that is totally up to the family. We are given examples of what these types of activities are such as, scripture study, letter writing, family history, etc…
    2. The work for the dead is sacred to us. Many religions believe if you die and have not been baptised you are forever cursed to “pergatory” or “hell”. We do not believe this. We do believe the words of Jesus Christ when he said, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.” (John 3:5) To accomplish this, Jesus established a missionary effort in the “spirit world” when he was “in the tomb”.(1 Peter 3:19)
    To accomplish this we are baptised by proxy for our kindred dead. On the other side of the veil they can choose to accept or not. This was done in the acient church. (1 Corinthians 15:29)
    3. We do not belive God was a man on Earth. We belive God, through Jesus Christ, created the earth. We do believe that As God is Man may become and, as Man is God once was. Eternities are a very, very long time. It only makes sense that a son grows up to be like his father.
    4. We do not belive that each planet has its own God. We believe God is the Creator of our Universe and that His kingdom is all we need concern ourselves with. A little known tid-bit is that we do believe that each planet where man is found has it’s own Adam and Eve.
    5. Mulitiple Heavens: Kind of… We do believe that “There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differenth from antoehr star in glory” 1 Corinthians 15:41 This scriptures tell us that based on our faithfullness we can achieve greater “glory”. The highest of which addresses your other point of greater love for our spouse.
    6. In the Temple of the Lord we may enter into the covenant of Eternal Marriage. Just as the Lord said that Adam and Eve shall be one flesh they were sealed together for Eternity. Since God is Eternal his actions are Eternal. We enter into the Abrahamic Covenant, which is the covenant made to Abraham, whereby if we prove faithful, we can have Eternal increase. It is quite beautiful and profound. It makes the relationship between a man and wife truly extraordinary.
    7. We do not believe the earth is 7, 000 years old. We believe in “creative periods”. In the Temple of the Lord we learn that we existed, spiritually, for a long, long, long, long…. time. We are talking billions here….
    8. I never heard the dinosaur bone from another world. That is just silly. We believe that all the creatures of the earth were “placed” here at different times.
    I could go on and on but suffice to say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is where I found all the answers to life. I grew up Catholic and everything was a “great mystery”. When I found the LDS Church all the questions were answered. I encourage you to take the time for an honest and true investigation into the teachings of the church. It is truly the restored church of Jesus Christ.

  • Charly

    I’m an ex Mormon, It’s such a strange religion. I looked into it deeply and I came to terms that in MY OPINION it’s a contradicting religion that doesn’t make sense!
    I believe In beautiful things, close friendships, love and family and that’s all I need in my life guys!
    To all the Morons posting on this page –
    I’m the happiest I have ever been in my life. 10% of your income to the church to give you hope that you get to enter one of the three pearly white gates? Come on guys why should heaven have a price on it? Just live while you have air in your lungs.
    Over and out!

  • Anonymous

    So how would you feel if the Church of Satan held a baptism ritual for you without your knowledge to make you a member and tie your name to them for all of eternity?

  • Anonymous

    The Mormon Church is wrong. A salamander can attest to that!

  • order66

    “Poligamy was a practice only carried out for a short time (Joseph Smith was reluctant to even do it) because there was a very large amount of widows in the church that couldn’t support their families.”

    1/3 of Joseph’s wives were teenagers (as young as 14) and another 1/3 of them were already married to living men. This is exactly why you can’t just ask a Mormon. You will not get a truthful reply. Whether its ignorance or deceit, I’m not sure.

    http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

  • Chuck Fuego

    Mormon is a scam like muslims

  • Danny Strickland

    Baptism for the dead is definitely one of the most misconstrued doctrines outside of the Church. You can’t honestly call this article objective or “through the perspective of an open minded skeptic,” when the author uses the line “Unlike true Christianity.” I’m mean when this truly amazing doctrine is correctly understood it answers the question that no other professor of Christianity in the world can answer, being “What about some guy who died in Africa who never got a chance to hear the Gospel?” Well, the Bible teaches this answer, but when you read it expecting it to conform to your doctrine, instead of your doctrine conforming to it, you miss these truths that were lost to the philosophy of men. So, in reply, you call this doctrine unjustifiable, and in accordance with John 8:47 I see how you can think that, but the Bible teaches that except a man be born, or baptized, of water and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, as put forth by Christ in John 3, and so since baptism is essential to salvation it would be unfair for those not given a chance in this life to be lost, as some teach. Baptism for the dead is a means by which all of God’s children can be given a fair chance to receive the Gospel. As also put forth in the New Testament, when we die our spirit leaves the body to await resurrection. Here the spirits that were not given a chance to receive the Gospel will be taught (John 5:25-29; 1 Peter 3:18-22 & 4:5-6) and if they except it they have to do what anyone else has to in order to follow Christ. First, have faith in Christ and His Atonement, second, repent of your sins by confessing and forsaking them, third, being baptized by immersion, and then receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands(This last one being taught mostly in Acts). These latter two cannot be done without bodies, and so these proxy baptisms are a way for us to stand in place of a deceased so that if they have excepted the Gospel they will have the opportunity to continue progressing sooner rather than later. All who have ever lived upon this earth with even a bit of accountability must be baptized before they can enter the kingdom of God, and before judgment all will have been given that chance, or else God would not be a merciful and just God.

  • Brandon Roberts

    look i’m not a mormon it’s cult like in some aspects but still it’s way less culty than scientology

  • Dooitz

    This guy needs a listener .. please listen to this guy.. coz this guy is a prophet in their religion XD

  • dooitz

    As a spirit do we have to repeat this again and again?

  • dooitz

    Dont you want to take a look at the examples.. that even the anti mormons contradict this beliefs? Or your just afraid to know that even “you” dont have the right amount knowledge about our beliefs.. try to know your religions Weird Beliefs ..

  • elder verses elder

    Basic knowledge and boring conversation . Mormons act and Think they are better than non- mormons . Just like all your other Basic Cults. aka religion. better than thou, Priesthood LDS, do basicaly .whatever you want ,,., oh yes LIES AND CHEATS ON WIFE WHO BIRTHED 9 CHILDREN . church dipping cyber sex hound . on sunday even tsk tsk.That would be Perverted . alot more dangerous than just plain old goofy. .also gay daughter is a no -no and YIKES her girlfriend black . they shake heads at that too.

  • edler versers elder

    Straight from the Mormons mouth , no caffine sodas , no coffee or tea .no oral sex , so become suppressed sex freak and break all the rules ,.,.

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